<p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Good evening, everyone, and welcome. Thank you for joining us tonight for this event, Sydney Ideas. It's great to see so many of our members from our community here. I'm Reuben Bolt, and I'm the Deputy Vice Chancellor Indigenous Strategy and Services here at the University of Sydney. But before we begin, I'd like to invite Craig Madden to deliver the Welcome to Country. Craig is a proud Aboriginal leader and respected member of community, and we're very grateful to have him here with us this evening, to formally welcome us. So please join me in welcoming Craig Madden to the stage.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Craig Madden&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Thank you very much Reuben. Warami, bujari gamarruwa. Today, welcome. My name is Craig Madden, and I'd like to start by thanking the University of Sydney for inviting me here today to welcome you to Country. I'm a proud Bundjalung/Gadigal man from the Eora Nation. Gadigal land is a land on which we are gathered here today. Djinyura Gadigal, this land is Gadigal. It is accustoming for our people when we invite our guests or visitors on to our land or country that we offer you safe passage as you pass through and sit on our lands. So as a proud Gadigal man, I'd like to welcome you all to Gadigal land, Aboriginal land. I'd like to pay my respects to our Elders, past and present, for they are the storytellers, they are the knowledge holders of our people. And I'd also like to acknowledge our ancestors, for they watch over us all as we walk upon these sacred lands. To our Aboriginal brothers and sisters, if we have any brothers and sisters from the Torres Strait Islands, welcome. To our non-Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander brothers and sisters here today, a very warm and sincere welcome to Gadigal land. Our Gadigal clan is one of the 29 clans which make up the Eora Nation, and that's a nation that's bound by three distinct landmarks. We have the Hawkesbury River to the north, the Nepean River out to the west, and the Georgia River down to the south. Within the boundaries of those mighty rivers lie our Eora nation, the land that we gathered on here today of our Gadigal mob, as mentioned, are the one, one of the many clans of that nation. Any guests from across the seas? For those of you from across our great country, great states of this beautiful rainy city, which is getting cold too. Welcome. I hope you'll enjoy the talk this afternoon. The, certainly looks interesting, and the topic is, is has me thinking, so hope you have a wonderful afternoon. On behalf of Gadigal mob, when you travel this afternoon, folks, please travel safely, and once again, welcome, welcome, welcome. But last but not least, certainly under the asphalt and the grasslands and the waterways of this beautiful country, always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Thank you.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Thank you, Craig, for that generous welcome, and for sharing your words with us this evening. I'd also like to acknowledge Country, acknowledge that we're on the lands of the Gadigal people, and I acknowledge their Elders, past and present, but I also would like to acknowledge the fact that Indigenous peoples all across this Country have cared for and nurtured the lands for thousands and thousands of years. We might talk about 65,000 years, but when you try to understand what 65,000 years actually means in terms of how long that is, it's not easy to understand. We might talk about in the everyday today being a second generation doctor or a third generation lawyer or a fifth generation farmer, but an Indigenous person could say that they're 2,900th generation, caring for the land. So that gives it a little bit of perspective. An Acknowledgement of Country is critically important for me. It's important for me because, as a Yuin man, I know that my old people walk with me, and if I look into my hand and I can see it might be skin, I can see lines, I can see hair, but if I look into my hand, I know there's blood, and in that blood, I know there's DNA. That DNA is the same DNA that my mum had or has. I know it's the same DNA because I was in her womb, and that's the same DNA that her mum had, and the same DNA that her mum had, and you can trace that back over 2,900 generations. So I know that my old people are not only with me in a spiritual sense, they're actually with me in a physical sense as well. So it's critically important that I make an Acknowledgement of Country, and it's also I know that they're here with me, and I know that I have to walk with cultural respect, it's critically important. But tonight we're going to be talking about Indigenous knowledge, we're going to be talking about connection to Country, but it's also important that we continue to create these kinds of spaces where Indigenous knowledges, Indigenous perspectives, Indigenous voices are not only recognised but they're centred and privileged. Conversations like this are an important part of how we can deepen our understanding, how we can challenge our assumptions, and how we can learn from each other. They also remind us that Indigenous knowledge systems are living systems, and they're grounded in Country, grounded in community, in culture, and in continuity, and they have much to offer all of us as we think about the future, not only for us, but for our children, and for our grandchildren's grandchildren, and so on and so forth. But it's now my pleasure to introduce tonight's guest, Associate Professor Michael Mossman. Michael serves as the Associate Dean Indigenous in the Faculty of Architecture, Design and Planning, and is the project lead for the Indigenous Knowledge Place. He helps facilitate meaningful dialogue and exchange of First Nations perspectives across architecture, teaching, student experience, research, and industry engagement. Across all his work, Michael has demonstrated a deep commitment to championing Country and Indigenous cultures as agents for structural change within higher education, design practice and policy. Michael's expertise in Indigenous community focused outcomes and his innovative approach to embedding Indigenous knowledges into the built environment continue to shape important conversations, both within and beyond the university. So, please join me in welcoming Michael Mossman.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Thanks so much, Reuben. It's really a pleasure to be here tonight, and I also want to acknowledge Country and community and cultures of place here, Gadigal, and also where you all might share your ancestry from as well. I just wanted to really, we're going to have a conversation and share some slides of, important in relation to the topic of this presentation tonight. The first slide that I wanted to share with you is this one in relation to the notion of storytelling and how it can be something that begins, you know, within oneself, and as an Aboriginal person, Kuku Yalanji, it's something very much that's part of, you know, the way that I go about my practices. And what is important to me about this, about this quote, and sharing it in a, in a university sense, is that you know how I can share this quote with students or with colleagues to unpack their own stories, and how they, how far they can go back in terms of really unpacking, you know, what is really critical to them and who they are, their stories and histories, and how that can become something that can sort of come through in the way that we can connect with each other. And it's been interesting, you know, really formulating this presentation with Reuben tonight, and in order to sort of go along these lines of what storytelling means, and really how that relates to the context of histories between Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, and it has not been so, you know, smooth sailing, where many Indigenous people would perhaps say that Australia has yet to deal with its histories, and truly reckon with it. So, Reuben, I just wanted to ask, what your thoughts are on that, and is it important that we acknowledge these histories?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, I think it's, I think it's incredibly important. If you consider who we are as individuals, you know we all have a sense of self, and that sense of self is informed by many resources, and one of those key resources is history, because history is actually about past events, but not all past events become part of history. So, in that sense, history is a construct there. The construct of history will be developed from those that are able to tell that history, and so if we think about it in the context of how one country might conquer another country, then really the conquerors will be able to tell their history from their side of the story, that becomes their history. In Australia, the history here, what we learn in schools. Previously, we've seen a bit of a change, in more recent times around Indigenous versions of history, but if the history talks about one version, then in a sense becomes sanitised. Now we might say, for example, you know, Captain Cook landed in 1770. Well, that's a past event, but there might be different perspectives on that. It might be from one perspective, might be seen as colonisation, from another perspective it might be invasion, from another perspective it might be settlement. So it's really about the value that you place on those significant events in the past, and if they are told over and over and over, then they become part of what we would call history. Yes, so my story. This is a photo on the front cover of the Dawn magazine. I've chosen this because this is part of my story, but it's also part of history. And it's part of history, so the Dawn magazine was a magazine that was around in the 1960s and you can see there, that's 1963 in August. The people on the front cover of that magazine is my mother and her siblings, and her father, and her mother. My mum's up the top on the right, and they were chosen as one of four Aboriginal families to be assimilated into society. So they used to live in tin shack settlements, when in Nowra where I'm from, and they were chosen as one of four families to be assimilated. My grandfather didn't want to go, because he didn't really trust - he would always say he would never trust a white man, that was how he had been conditioned. My nan was a Christian, though, and she said, 'Nah, let's do this. We should do this for a better opportunity for our children'. And you can see here, like if you look at the words, 'New world opens up for Aborigine families'. And the secretary there, you can see him shaking hands with my nan. This is what he said, I'll just pull one quote out of that. He says, the families concerned are taking part in a novel social experiment among Aborigines in this state, and one of incalculable value. So, if you think about the ways in which Indigenous people have been positioned, just in terms of the language, you know, the family is concerned at taking part in a novel social experiment, so seen as a social experiment. My grandfather talks about being a guinea pig. He says we are guinea pigs, because if we don't get it right, then it won't have opportunity, there won't be opportunities for other Aboriginal people. So that's just one example of my story, it's not my personal story, because I wasn't born in before 1963. My mother was 14, I think, in that, in that photo. So it's about the story, we talked about storytelling. I know this history because I've been told this history from my family, and I've been told a specific version of history. So I think history is very important, because it gives us a sense of who we are, instead, in the sense of being personal, the personal, so in terms of our personal identity, but there's also I think it's important for the construction of the national identity and our collective sense of, you know, being Australian, for example. So my question to you, Michael, we spoke a little bit about history as a resource, but Country. So we know countries are concepts in a Western sense, but it has a different meaning in an Indigenous context. So can you tell us a little bit about that? So history is inherently related to Country, and it's a part of the Australian lexicon, but what do you think about the word Country when it comes up, and how does Country relate to your story?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, I think I can really reflect on growing up and hearing that word Country is something that was communicated to me, I was very fortunate in that sense, that I was able to hear that from a very young age about how that related to place, how it related to time, you know, histories and the stories that are attached to that, and you can go into a lot of depth, you know, uncovering layers about, of meaning that go into that word. When I did my PhD that I finished in 2020 I came across this quote that was very much about unpacking a very complex, you know, layers of information that you can explore and relate to my own stories and my family histories, and how that then becomes embedded in the person that I am, but also the practices that I carry out as well. And the important thing that I communicate in relation to this quote that I share with students and with colleagues, is that it's about asking them, or asking you in the audience, you know, how you look at the particular definition, and all of the different aspects that this quote has created in order to relate to this word Country. And relate to it yourself, and relate to it in a way where you can go back to a certain point in time with the stories or histories that you have, and the ancestries that at some point, you know, you're really, you're living connected to landscapes or connected to waterscapes. And the, you know, that sort of thing is really important to consider in order to then tell that story back to me, you know, in terms of how I can reflect on what country means to me, but then how you can reflect on what country means to you, and then we can create connections. The important thing about it is that, in relation to place and my story, this is Yarrabah, it's the lands of the Gunggandji peoples, and it was here that my grandparents, they met and were married and had their family. It's an Anglican mission that was set up in the late 1800s that coincided with the establishment of Cairns, which has a traditional place name called Gimuy, and it's really about, you know, understanding that these places have histories and stories attached to them, and the family connections inherently embedded in who I am. It's part of this story that we have, the histories that we have across this country of policies that were presented to separate Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people from broader society, overall is about disrupting connections to culture and removing, forcibly removing people from their places of origin to make way for colonial exploitation, and this community was one example of a place where many different people from many different communities were forcibly placed into this community, and it has, you know, its stories that are attached to that, and my family story is apparently part of that. These are my grandparents, Mary on the left, Mary Connolly on the left, and Harry Mossman on the right, and I always tell the story about my grandfather, who's my dad's dad, and his story is that he is Kuku Yalanji, and when he was five years old in Mossman, which is a township north of Cairns, which is where I get my name from, is that he, at five years old, he was forcibly removed from that place to Yarrabah, and he never saw his mother again. And it's this story that's part of, you know, who I am, and that, you know, how that can be continually communicated to the next generations to come. I, they left Yarrabah, and that process of, very similar to Reuben's, where it's about connect, being part of this sort of social experiment, or in this case coming into this Cairns area, this colonial outpost that developed into a township that then developed now into an international destination, that again has these histories of Aboriginal people, families who came over to find opportunities, employment, work to then raise their families, my dad being one of their children to, you know, interact with this very colonial environment. And it is something that's very interesting to me to reflect on in relation to this photograph, that scenario from a plane, and you can notice that it's on one side, the left, it's it's mangrove ecology, so very natural, and then on the right side, the city of Cairns, it would have once been exactly similar to what's on the left-hand side, but it's been trans, this infrastructure has been transplanted, reclaimed in inverted commas, and this is the sort of colonial embodiment of what cities that we have now. And I come from an architecture background, and so that's something very much thinking about spatially, but the time, you know, is also something that's really important to consider. And that, that, that flows through into my practices as a lecturer, as an opportunity to engage with communities, to engage students with those practices to really embed a transformational experience that can stay with them for the rest of their days. I'm going to move forward and return a question back to Reuben. Along the same lines, what does Country mean to you, and specifically in relation to this photo?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, it's a good – look, I think some of the discussion so far from what you've said, does talk about the kind of ruptures that's occurred as a result of colonisation. There's ruptures and there's the kind of discontinuities that have happened, but there's also the convergence, and so when we talk about the convergence, so of Indigenous knowledge and say Western knowledge. We talk about that convergence and how that comes together, you know. So, for example, I speak English, so I know I'm Aboriginal. I know that's part of my story, and it's a part of my history, but I speak English, and for me that's part of who I am, and that's how I understand the world. But we know the story about that, those ruptures, and so what's really important to me has been, and my family, has been about how do we get culture back. You spoke a little bit about Yarrabah being an Anglican mission. Well, my nan, she was a Christian, and her father was, he was a minister for a church, and but she was able to reconcile the Christianity with her Aboriginality to a point where it didn't become a problem, and it wasn't in competition, so she could reconcile that, and she was very, very comfortable with who she was. As I think about those continuities and discontinuities, and then I think about, well, I can look back on history, and I can be, I can blame things for, you know, what's happened, or I can think about what does that mean for moving, moving on to the next part, about you know, instead of we've got this survival kind of language that's always been part of the way we talk at Aboriginal communities. But to my mind, it's what do we do for the next step, so how do we get ourselves out of that kind of survival language and be, and start to thrive? This is a really good example of that, so I'm up the back there in the third on the left, up the back, but this was the day that we got our painting back. There's an old man you can see in the middle that's not painted. He spoke to my uncle, next to him, say, my uncle's Bobby McLeod, and he was a singer songwriter and an activist, and he spoke to this old man, and who was from Horse Creek, and that old man said, &quot;I know the song lines that connect my people to your people, and I know the song lines, and I know, and I know your painting&quot;. And Michael said, &quot;Well, why don't you come back down home, and you could paint that on the boys?&quot;, and that's what happened. There's 13 of us there. That's something that's really important to me, because it's a part of identity, but it's also a part of that connection, and that connection back to Country. And, we've always had the connection, but we didn't necessarily know how to connect with it, and I think that's really important, you know, I had an uncle once say to me, you know, language is not dead, language is just asleep, and you know how you wake it up. Well, you talk it, but when he was talking about language, what he meant was lore, L-O-R-E. So he would say that tree, because it gives us oxygen, that's your language, so that's your, that gives you, that's the essence of life, that's your lore. So you know how, if you lose culture through colonisation or whatever it is, you don't lose it, it's always there, it's just asleep, and the way you wake it up is you live it. And so to me, this is about this connection with Country, where, you know that uncle again, he went to a conference in South America back in the 80s, and he wanted to get up, and you know, he had, he's had to, had to something to say. All other Indigenous people, they got up, and they told their stories in their language. We didn't have our language at that time. So my uncle got up, and he sang Country and Western, because he was a Country and Western singer, but what he did was he would talk about the survival and the fight against the colonial, and that was in the lyrics of his songs. And so he did that, but then he said, you know what, I'm going to go back to that conference in a couple of years, and I'm going to bring my nephews and my sons back, and they're going to dance, and that's how we got our dance back. There's a story down home. There's a mountain called Coolangatta Mountain, and the narrative was probably about 30 years ago. The last corroboree was 50 years ago, so that's about 80 years now. When my uncle started this dance company, it was called Doonooch, and so what we did, we started to reconnect. I danced at the Olympics in the opening ceremony, when that was on, in the closing ceremony. We went to New Zealand. We did 36 shows in 30 days. We went over to Scotland, went to Nouméa. The boys have been to about 25 countries, I think I went to three or four, but it was about that reconnection again. And I'm just going to tell you one story about the significance of that reconnection. So, we would travel around state. I drove to every state in the country. Except for Tassie, we flew there. I didn't dance in the Northern Territory, and I didn't dance in Western Australia, but every other state I danced, and we went to go to Adelaide one day, and it was 7 o'clock at night. Michael said, &quot;Okay, let's go. It's 7 o'clock. We're dancing tomorrow in Adelaide, and we're going to dance at 11. So, if you leave now, we'll be able to get there by 11&quot;. I don't know what the sense of work health and safety was, but that's what we did. So, we would, I was the only one with a license. And so, I had six cousins, so seven cousins were in a car, was an old Ford Falcon, had three seats in the front, three in the middle, and two over the back, so that's eight. And we were driving, and we got to a place between Hay and Balranald. And I was driving, and I was getting tired, it was about 2 o'clock in the morning, and I could see this big truck, I knew it was a truck, because the lights were so big in the distance, because the road would go for about six kilometers straight, and then it would turn, and then another six kilometers straight. And so as we started getting closer, I looked over my cousin Cecil, he was real big, fella, he was asleep, mouth open. Other cousins, they were all asleep, and so I was driving, and I was feeling a little bit tired, and as I got closer to that corner, we got closer and closer, and then I looked at the speedo, no, sorry, and then I saw a Djunidjunudj, which is an owl, and the owl's owl, like, look after, looks after us, like it's our totem. They'll say totem, it's, but they would look, it would look after us. And when I saw the owl in the middle of the line, the white line, the hair stuck up on my neck. The owl turned around and looked at me, and then I looked at the speed. I was doing 180,&nbsp; the truck was coming around the corner, and I just put my foot on the brake and slowly eased around. Now, you tell me that's a coincidence. Now, I know my old people are here, and I know they're watching over us. That to me is an example of how we're connected. So every time when I drive, if I see an owl, I will always slow down, so. No, but I mean, it's that's just a natural thing, that's, I know I have to slow down, so I will do that.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Taking care of you.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Taking care of us. Absolutely.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>The one thing I wanted to move on to next is about the One Sydney, Many People strategy, and as part of this presentation, we put this quote in, and it's from former Chancellor Belinda Hutchison AC, and it's part of the Sydney in 2032 strategy. And that's the driving document, you know, for the university as a whole, and we can see that there's a strong commitment, you know, to really, you know, that we can, we can do more. There's always more that we can do. And, take that in, because you know, when we look, when I look at that quote in black and white in our university strategy that has meaning and it's significant, and it's something to build on as well. So that when we talk to the One Sydney, Many People strategy, which you came in, you were appointed last year, and that was one of your first tasks. It would be fantastic to hear from you. You know, that process. What's what's going through your mind as you're, you know, really pushing that forward.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, look, I think. First I'd like to acknowledge that there was some work done by my predecessor, Professor Lisa Jackson Pulver, and it was the first kind of iteration of One Sydney, Many People, and it was a strategy that had four pillars, and when I first came on board. I spoke to the Vice-Chancellor, and he said to me, &quot;Look, this is, this would be the second iteration, but what we want you to do is to have a look at it and, see where you want to be able to put your mark on it&quot;, you know. It didn't make sense for somebody new, a new leader, to come in if the strategy was already published. So we had a look at it and really started to kind of focus on those four areas, so one was on research, there's another area –</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>– Yep</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>– On education, another area on partnerships, and then leadership and governance. So the structure didn't change, but what we did was really tried to focus on each of those areas, and then we started to talk about, for example, research elevating 65,000 years into world-class research, and we started to talk about partnering with, you know, Indigenous communities, and how we do that in a genuine way. And so we also had developed a range of KPIs, so that we would make sure that we make ourselves accountable, and now we can work with that, and it's really now more about how do we implement that, and I think we, we launched the strategy on the 27th of February earlier this year. It's now really, we're in a phase where we will be continue to develop those initiatives, we've got to make some really strategic decisions. We can't do everything at once, so we'll do that in a more staged approach. But I think it's really now about how do we bring everyone along, because this is a strategy that's not my strategy or not my portfolio strategy, it's a whole of university strategy. So the KPIs in there are really everyone's KPIs, so how can we bring everyone along? The other key point for me is, how do we ensure that people can understand a little bit more about Indigenous knowledge and Indigenous perspectives? And so, this might be a good example of how we might be able to do that, is to have events like this where we can talk a little bit about our experience and a little bit more about the nuances associated with Indigenous knowledge. But it's not going to be an easy thing for people to kind of get straight away, I think there needs to be a bit more immersion in that, to be able to spend a bit of time with it. And, one of the examples I would give, I ran a course when I was at UNSW, I ran it for 10 years, and that course included a three day field trip, and they'll go down to my community, down to Wreck Bay, and they'd talk with the elders there, and one of the elders would say, you know, &quot;Yesterday is today, is tomorrow&quot;. And they'd say, what, that doesn't make sense, from a Western perspective, because time is linear, but you'll say, no, no, yesterday is today, is tomorrow, it's the same thing. And it's the same thing, because that's the way you exist, you can only exist in the moment. You might think of time as linear, or as a construct, but from that perspective, it is in the, it is the everyday, the everything. If you read the literature, they talk about the everywhere, so just having that bit of immersion in that, those narratives, and hearing the uncles talk, to be able to, you know, try to write. They can ask questions, and others that are there that are hearing the questions and listening and they're being immersed in it, that's how you can get a better understanding of it, but it's not going to mean you're going to know everything, but you get a little bit of a glimpse at that. And, one really interesting point I just want to make was I'd have a lot of students from, international students, so a lot from the US as well, and when they'd come, there was one particular student at the end of the end of the field trip. He says, &quot;You know what, I came over here and I wanted to go to this course because it had a field trip to an Aboriginal community. But he says, &quot;And I thought this is going to be great. We're going to learn about the problems and we're going to give them the solutions to it&quot;, and then he says, &quot;But I learned we need to listen to Indigenous people, because there's a wisdom in Indigenous knowledge, but you're not going to know what that wisdom is unless you can engage in it in a deep and meaningful way&quot;. So Michael, we've got a strategy, One Sydney, Many People. We've been talking a little bit about Indigenous knowledge and connection to Country. So, can you tell us a little bit about that? How do you do that in terms of your practice here at the university, and specifically in relation to the Indigenous knowledge Place?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, the Indigenous Knowledge Place is a strategic commitment through the School of Architecture, Design, and Planning, where I work, and it is, you know, that show of commitment is then a really strong driver to say, here's an opportunity to create a place that celebrates the work that we've carried out in relation to Country, in relation to cultural practices, in relation to engagement with communities. And by large, the celebration of that, it's about really welcoming everyone in the school, our colleagues and those who we've worked with, in terms of celebrating those, those activities, and it cuts across, you know, all the pillars of the OSMP strategy, education being transformative, research excellence, and, you know, governance, and leadership, and partnerships. It's all there, like we are already carrying out those activities in relation to those pillars. It's really just creating this place that consolidates that information, so then we can invite people, audiences, to really engage with us, and understand if there are ways that we can connect, form relationships, create dialogue, exchange knowledge, and then build new innovations that we can do, do things that are very special. And that sits within a university ecosystem that, you know, how we can again, you know, trans thinking transdisciplinary, thinking about where, you know, there's always an interaction that can make a difference, to the way you think about these topics, to the way that you relate to these topics, and, you know, that certainly is my experiences. Working in the school, with colleagues. We set up a yarning circle, and the yarning circle is about exactly what we did here to start this presentation, about telling our stories or snippets of our stories. You know, this guy's a deadly performer, you know, back in the day he probably still is, and he'll never not be a deadly performer. And, you know, it's that thing where you tell us something that's deeply personal, that there might be a connection there, that we can build on, and then create something quite special. So, these are, all these initiatives that, in this sort of networked approach, that working in the school to reach out to colleagues in all the different disciplines that we have in all these types of ways to then say, how can we consolidate this information? Create a research centre, create other sort forms of, forums that can get the word out about these, these particular activities, and it goes into these types of projects that I was a part of last year. It involved traveling to Venice and being part of the Architecture Biennale, and it was a brand new experience, you know, and that thing about working with other people. There was a team of First Nations practitioners in all different disciplines from all different countries around Australia that we were, you know, put together this this project called Home. The realisation of Home happened because there was a very deep investment from the School of Architecture, Design, and Planning from the University of Sydney, to say this is an amazing vision, this visionary we, you know, can commit to this and, you know, give you the best opportunity to, you know, demonstrate excellence, and you know, just some examples of being in the space, projecting or presenting what Country is to this international audience. Venice, it's a pretty unique place, and there's also synergies there too, you know, there's that deep connection to place the water, these constructed landscapes. People are very, very attached to that place, and that resonates as an Indigenous person. That resonance really makes you think carefully about how you connect. These are some images, you know, really bringing together a community of practice, our colleagues who traveled to this place to celebrate with us, and to really be, you know, informed or continue to strengthen what they, how they relate to these topics, and how they can continue to do more. The best thing about that project in Venice, again, was this commitment from the school to really coordinate this learning exercise for students. The education is transformational, pillar is such a critical one for me, because what we impart in knowledge, it stays with students or a group of students for the rest of their lives. And this one was an example where we just didn't, you know, my idea was not to stop at the University of Sydney, but just to take it across Australia and to invite schools of architecture. We ended up with 11, and there was just this magnificent way to engage again, cross-culturally. People, students from all different cultures, backgrounds, again with histories that resonate and connect, of you know, seeking refuge and asylum that has, you know, again, you can find those connections, so you know you're engaging with this new next generation of practitioners that can take in this information and do special things in the future. These are some of the examples. They were part of the exhibition. Again, the transformational experience to say I was invited to be part of this exhibition on the other side of the world, stays with them forever. I, you know, had this again opportunity to the commitment of the school to say, take the students over there and let them, have them experience that place as well in those histories, and also through, you know, with Indigenous students studying in architecture, so vastly underrepresented demographic, along with many other disciplines, pretty much everything, that you can then, you know, with DVCISS commitment, in this case, you know, to take a group of Indigenous architecture students over there as well, again with that experience of students coming together, being in the one place and staying very close with each other, it, it is an experience to behold, some certainly very powerful to experience. How you know, I get, I get emotional when I think about that project, and what came out of it. The, the educational component is the highlight for me, and how what we do in university settings is always about, you know, the knowledge that we impart can be, can have an impact, that can make a difference tomorrow, can make a difference next week, it can make a difference in 20 years time. It can always, can, you know, maybe one day come back to that message that you presented. So this is, you know, part of the audience here to think about that, you know, with each interaction, every sort of, you know, imparting of knowledge can make a difference. The, we're going to, we're going to continue on, and we're returning back to the, to the title of this forum tonight. What Country could be, and Indigenous thinking to take Australia forward. And I'm going to put that back to Reuben. In terms of you know, what, how do you see that? How do you see that proposition? In your role and your story, and you know how that might impact on the audience here as well.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, look, I think that first part, what Country could be for me from an Indigenous perspective, Country just is, because it just is, you just live it. And so when I used to, I did about 20 years of teaching in Indigenous Studies, and I'd ask the students the question, what is being, and they'd say, you know, being is, they'd use words like spirituality, being is who you are, those kinds of things, and what I think the answer is being is. And that's more of the kind of ontological, if you think about it in an ontological way, it's about existence, and it just is, or Country just is. And so for me this is about how you might interpret what Country is, so you now have an opportunity to shape what Country could be for you, so I think that's the critical element here. We know what it is, and we've been in, immersed in this. If you think about it, over generations that have been ruptured, discontinued, but we've been able to bring that back. And that's through our life experience, I think that's really important. But the thing now is, how do we move that forward, and how can we bring together Indigenous knowledge and Western science in a way that will benefit everyone? I've been working with the National Science and Technology Council special expert member, scientific expert member, and I've been on that council for about three years now, and about six months after I had started on the council, we, we published the new National Science and Research Priorities for Australia. The National Science and Technology Council is chaired by the Prime Minister and the Minister for Industry and Science, and chaired, and the Secretariat is the Chief Scientist of Australia, and we publish these research priorities, and you can see the one articulated in the middle, is elevating Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander knowledge systems. It's the first time we've ever had an Indigenous-focused National Science Research Priority. And that was about three years ago. That had been refreshed after about seven years. So, every time you apply for an ARC grant, or for an NHMRC grant, there will be a question that will say, how does your project align to one of the five NSRPs? So Indigenous knowledge is there now as one of those. Soon after that, we started to talk with the Prime Minister about setting up a prize for Indigenous knowledge. So the Prime Minister's Prize for Science had seven categories, and we said, &quot;Oh, we should, we should think about doing, having a new category around Indigenous knowledge&quot;. So we put that proposal in, and that, ended up that they said, &quot;Look, we're happy to do it&quot;. They asked me to go and speak at the Prime Minister's Prize that night, and I thought about it. They said, &quot;You've got three minutes to talk&quot;, and I thought about it. I thought, &quot;Well, how do I want to frame this? How do I want to shape it?&quot; Because tonight is actually that night, the Prime Minister's Prize, that was about celebrating Indigenous knowledge. And when I started to think about what I'm going to say, I kind of couldn't get past the kind of the negative history around Indigenous people and non-Indigenous people, but I had to acknowledge it. So, what I did, I said, &quot;Okay, what I'm going to do, I'm going to say one sentence and acknowledge colonisation, and then everything else is going to be all positive&quot;. And so then I said I'd acknowledge that, and then I said, but I want people in the audience to think about this, think about this statement: Indigenous knowledge is an asset to the world and a gift to humanity. So think about that, and then I spoke a little bit about, I gave three kind of examples of where the intersection of Indigenous knowledge and Western science has already made a good contribution to humanity and good contribution to our communities, and then at the end I said Indigenous knowledge is an asset to the world and a gift to humanity. And, the next couple of days there were different quotes from scientists that were at that dinner, the Chief Scientist of Australia at the time, Dr Cathy Foley, also put that quote, and I thought this is really interesting because we now have the Chief Scientist of Australia saying this, in their social media, so it was on LinkedIn. And I thought this is really interesting, because it's almost like a paradigm shift in the ways in which Western science was positioning Indigenous knowledge, and elevating it. And so, what we've done as a part of this, you'll see in the One Sydney, Many People Strategy, it talks about elevating 65,000 years of knowledge, so to me I think this is where we can move forward, as a nation. There's already the infrastructure to act for Indigenous knowledge through the NSRPs, and there's also the recognition piece through the Prime Minister's Prize. The Prime Minister's Prize is the winner last year received the $250,000 prize and a Prime Minister's medal, and so it's at the highest level of government that it's being recognised. So there's a real opportunity now for us to be able to use this and say, okay, what's next? I think we can really, as a country, move forward, it's really going to be more about how do we really articulate what those programs of work might be around Indigenous knowledge of Western science.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Yeah, I can relate to that, in terms of my current Australian Research Council project, Discovery Indigenous, and when I was successful with that application, that is, that elevating Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander knowledge systems was not there. But it was very much there in for, for me, and that's how then you know, it's when it's in this context here, it's for everyone to see that, and the, for me, the knowledge place is about invite, that invitation to say, look, this is on the agenda, and we can all contribute to it, and make a difference, and be impactful. It's exciting times.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>So with that council, we'll be putting out three reports, which will come out in July. One was really more of a literature review, and you know, to better understand all the projects around Indigenous knowledge and Western science, and how that intersection. We also did a national conversation, where we traveled around the country and asked people about how do we implement a National Science Research Priority like this, it's never been done before. So we came up with an implementation plan, which we're really saying we want to look at the research ecosystem in the country. Can't talk too much about that until it's approved. And then the third one will be instruments around how to promote it, so short videos, media tiles, case studies, etc. Because when people try to understand what Indigenous knowledge is, it's not all that clear, I don't think, but if you can really understand how that works, I think that's where it can make a difference.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Okay, we're going to wrap up this presentation part of this forum. We're going to step to the side and play a video of the One Sydney, Many People strategy for you to enjoy over the next few minutes, and then we'll return back to our seats for questions.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>And just quickly on that, we, we launched the strategy on the 27th of February, and this was the video that my team, we have a media team within the portfolio. So my, my team had put this together so that we could play out the strategy launch. I think this kind of sums up what we're trying to do here at the university, so we'll watch that, and we'll see you soon.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>[VIDEO AUDIO]&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>For 175 years, the University of Sydney has stood on Gadigal land, and yet that is only a moment in a story that stretches back tens of thousands of years. This place has always been a place of learning, long before sandstone walls and lecture halls. These lands held knowledge, culture, and responsibility for Country. The Gadigal renewed this knowledge for generations. Our people have always led, always learned, and always shaped the future. We acknowledge the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander voices that have carried stories of strength, resistance, hope, and determination. It's these stories that have shaped this university's past, and they continue to shape the present and its future. We walk in the footprints of those before us, with a legacy left behind by giants like Charles Perkins, whose courage, leadership, and commitment to justice reshaped this university and the nation. We also honor and reflect on Felcia Corowa, a determined young woman from Fingal Heads, who became one of the earliest Aboriginal students to complete the Leaving Certificate with distinction. It is their legacy, and that of others, we are called to carry forward with One Sydney, Many People.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>[VIDEO AUDIO]&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Over the past four years, the One Sydney, Many People strategy has achieved remarkable success, guided by a clear vision rooted in the four key areas: Nguragaingun, culture and community, Eora, our people, Ngara, education and research and Pemulian, environment. This strategy has driven meaningful change, embedding Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture, knowledges, and values into every facet across this university. We are incredibly proud of the faculties, staff, students, and stakeholders who have embraced this transformative journey, contributing to the wide-ranging engagement and lasting impact of One Sydney, Many People. Our efforts span across every part of the university, research, curriculum, service. Working with Traditional Custodians on cultural protocols established the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander identified positions for more Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander staff. Since launching One Sydney, Many People in 2021 we have established a Pro Vice-Chancellor Indigenous position, as well as creating a series of protocols across the university. Our work through One Sydney, Many People is a shared effort with key stakeholders contributing to all the successes and embodying the true spirit of the strategy. As we look ahead, One Sydney, Many People will continue on the path that is sustainable, impactful, and empowering. This work ensures that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are self-determined, empowered, and standing on the shoulders of giants, our elders and ancestors. One Sydney, Many People has accomplished so much for our university and community, and we can be proud of the wide range of achievements we've seen. Guided by these four pillars, we continue to grow in numerous ways. For example, we've increased the number of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander students and staff, ensuring greater representation and diversity across the university. This growth has been supported by key initiatives, including the Gadigal Centre, which has become a vital hub for student support and cultural connection, empowering our students to thrive academically and personally. In addition to this, we've expanded our scholarship offerings, providing more students with financial backing that they need to pursue their education and achieve their goals. Our partnerships with external organisations and communities have also deepened, creating mutually beneficial relationships that amplify the impact of our work. These collaborations have enriched our students' learning experiences and furthered our commitment to empowering Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities through education and cultural exchange. Each of these accomplishments is a testament to the strength and vision of our people, and we'll look forward to sharing even more of these successes with one Sydney, Many People.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>[VIDEO AUDIO]&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>The impact of One Sydney, Many People is profound. It reminds us that when opportunity is real, potential is limitless. We have this unique opportunity over the next six years to centre Indigenous leadership, to elevate Indigenous knowledge systems that are 65,000 years in the making, and to ensure empowerment and advancement are not just aspirational but are foundational to everything we do. We invite you to walk with us on this journey, that is what sits at the heart of the One Sydney, Many People strategy. This strategy is grounded in the past, alive in the present, and focused firmly on the future. It commits us to walking together, students, staff, partners, and community with purpose, integrity, and shared responsibility. When students see Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander educators, researchers, and professional staff leading from the front, they see more than role models; they see themselves. Today, we launched the second iteration of the One Sydney, Many People Strategy. I'm proud of where we have come from, and we are clear about the work that lies ahead, and I'm confident that together we can honor legacy while shaping a stronger future at this university.&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Okay, so what we might do now, we're going to open it up for questions. So, there are some mics down the front here, but there's also Slido, so if you've had an opportunity to use the Slido, we can do that. Any questions?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Audience Member&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Indigenous populations have taken care of this beautiful land for over 65,000 years, and in the last just over 250 years it has been greatly degraded. I'm very inspired by the opportunities that the university has developed within, and is beginning to reach out to elevate Indigenous knowledge to the wider community. Do you believe that if that can continue at a much greater rate, that the current rate of destruction can be significantly reduced, and I know from your architectural background as well, the built environment is having a big effect on living. The respect for Country and the care of Country is critical to our survival, and, the elevating Indigenous knowledge will really, I think, be critical in our ability to actually improve our capacity to reduce further destruction. How confident are you that we can elevate that knowledge to the point where it makes a major impact?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>First, I would say if we do it, it will definitely make a good impact. It will make a significant impact. I think it's how we do that at scale is going to be the challenge. I was part of the panel last year at the International Astronautical Congress, which was here in Sydney, and they asked us to design a plenary, an Indigenous focused plenary, and it was the 76th International Astronomical Congress. First time in its 76 year history that they've ever had an Indigenous focus plenary. So we did the plenary, and then they, one of the European organisations, asked us to meet with us and to give some feedback on this strategy, and the first thing we said was, well, your strategy is all wrong. It's fundamentally wrong. And we said, look at your first principle. The first principle was everyone has the right to explore. And we said, look what happened when everyone had the right to explore across the world. Look what happened to us. So, what it should have been, we said was it should have been, everyone has the right to work together for the benefit of humanity. So, fundamentally, if you're thinking about competition and who's going to get to space first, which country will get there, they're talking about, you know, how we, you know, in terms of the conflict that's happening around the world, there's, you know, there's - we're looking to go into space now to be able to strengthen, you know, each of the countries, so that they can, that they could win, basically. I think it's more about how do we work together, and that's, and that's even at the level of, of principles, but there are some really, really good examples of, of how you can bring together Indigenous knowledge and Western science, and one of the examples is around a project that's been in the Northern Territory for the last 20 years, where one of the researchers has worked with Aboriginal Ranger groups all across the territory. And over 20 years they've been able to use satellite data to document the fire patch burning. Now they've been able to do that over 20 years, and they've been able to show the most significantly reduced fire load in the world, because they've got the data over 20 years and it's using Indigenous knowledge, it's using Indigenous practices of fire stick burning. So I think if we can do it at scale, I think it can make a big difference. I think it's really more about how we can bring these two knowledge systems together on the same level, not as Indigenous knowledge being something that's not as valued as Western science, but acknowledge that they're actually different, and they have, they would, they each have their own strengths within their own, I suppose, epistemological kind of foundations.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>I'll make a comment on that as well. I'm doing a research project at the moment that's looking at performance criteria that architecture schools have to meet in terms, in terms of accreditation, and in 2021 they brought in performance criteria relating to Country and First Nations cultures and community practices for the first time ever, and it's this notion of, okay, well, here's a opportunity to embed something structurally, in a, in a, the way that universities teach, the curriculum that they present to their students, and the assessment tasks that are important to qualify. And you know it's six years since it's passed, and the research project is reflecting on, you know, what you know what the practitioners and the university, you know, environments, how they're reflecting on these new criteria, and it's that thing where it's about, okay, well, as I mentioned in the presentation, we're a very small, underrepresented group in architecture, in a lot of built environment, you know, across the board, discipline wise, but you know, activating those performance criteria is there for everyone to learn about these. And through that, there is an element of box ticking to, you know, meeting accreditation processes. But, with each sort of interaction that engages with those performance criteria, someone's going to take a student or a colleague will take something important away to develop in their own minds, and really activate in, in, in a impactful, through impactful methods that can further make, you know, flesh out nuanced approaches. And that to me is the exciting thing, because yes, built environment is heavily, you know, destructive on environments in general, but there are small things that we can do that can make a difference, and you know, even like exhibitions, the one that in Venice, communicating a story, we've got one in the Tin Sheds at the moment, B Hardy. Really makes you think very deeply about place and systems that can then, in turn, how you can make those connections, and the invitation is there for you, or you know, to really engage with it.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Audience Member&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Thanks very much, to both of you. I just, there was a quote in there from Professor Reuben, I think it was, yesterday is today is tomorrow, and I'm just wondering how both of you, I guess, contemplate that concept in what you do, and I guess specifically, when you set about a plan that is really time specific, like 2025 to 2032 and how that concept has sort of influenced your approach to that?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Because that came from my community, and when the old people talk about yesterday is today is tomorrow, it's almost like this, it's almost how you can also deal with what's happening in terms of colonisation, and so what the uncles will talk about is even though we don't hunt kangaroos anymore, but we still do the same thing in terms of providing for our family, you know, you might fish, go fishing, and you might use a rod and a fishing line. That might not necessarily have been how it was prior to colonisation, but it's the same thing. So, yesterday is today is tomorrow, and if you have that same concept and understanding of Country, then that's how you apply it, so from that perspective, and that's why I said earlier, you know, Country just is, and if you know how to engage with it, then you'll note, you'll have a better understanding of how that kind of features in, in the way you can view the world. I had an uncle that once said to me, you know what, there's some lines in England. I said, what? He said, there must be. They just don't know how to connect with it. Because when a baby is born, that, it cries, right? And if a baby cries, the sound goes out. Where does the sound go? Does it stop, or does it keep going? It keeps going, it never stops. Well, how many babies have been born over 65,000 years? And then you think about that, when that reverberation goes out, that's that's the energy, that's what that's what that connection is as well. It's that connection to Country, because Country is alive and Country here is still one mum. We still get oxygen from tree, so it's the same, it's a universal thing. So that yesterday is today is tomorrow is about everything is here and now. I hope that makes sense.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Michael Mossman&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>I think, for me, the thing that I mentioned earlier, about the impact of the interaction, it can be, you know, it can be present, it can happen in a day or two, it can happen 20 years down the track. That's, you know, that's something, because it's some, it's related to something that you know, I might have heard from my parents, you know, 40 years ago that could strike up and form some way of appreciating a situation, and it's that thing where again it's how you can communicate that to others to think in a similar way to then form those connections. Strategically, we love, you know, universities love strategies, you know, these sorts of executive environments, they have a role to play. I think that there's, you know, the way that we get to know each other is also critical, and those histories and stories and aspirations at the, deeply personal levels can be informative as well.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <p>Reuben Bolt&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Unfortunately, that's all we've got time for. So just want to say thank you to everyone that's come here tonight to spend some time with us. I'd like to thank Michael. I'd also like to thank Sydney Ideas. And remember, if you would like to know more information, you can go to the Sydney Ideas website, so sydney.edu.au/sydney-ideas. So, once again, thanks everyone. I hope you've had a good night, and I hope you've been able to think a little bit differently. So, thank you.</p>